Discusión:सूनु
@Tom 144: hi, the correct word is सूनु (sūnu). The current title's correct transliteration would be sūna. I cannot move the page maybe because of low edit count. Sorry, I don't speak Spanish. I saw you at English Wiktionary so I thought i'd tell you. -- माधवपंडित (discusión) 02:11 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @माधवपंडित: Hi, thank you very much for the correction. --Tom 144 (discusión) 02:23 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @Tom 144: Thanks for moving the page! -- माधवपंडित (discusión) 02:26 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @माधवपंडित: Now that I have the opportunity, I've been working on the reconstruction of the PIE devī inflection for some templates, and I've consulted sources that differ in the reconstruction of the ablaut, and your user page says that you know about etymology and evidently you know Devanagari. So I guess you might help me.
- Now the problem lies on the genitive singular case. Apparently, it could have been either *-yáh₂s or *-yah₂as, which would have yielded sanskrit -yās. Now, I have an idea of how to figure it out, I'm not quite sure about the reliability of my method, but's all I've got. I've read (I don't remember where), that laryngeals cause anomalies on the Vedic meter. So my guess is, that in case the correct form was *-yah₂as, it would have yielded a dissyllabic -yās, that would be confirmable by counting the number of syllables in a verse in the RigVeda. So if you know any verse where a noun is inflected with the devī inflection, and can actually confirm this I would be immensely grateful. --Tom 144 (discusión) 03:01 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @Tom 144: You are right, the laryngeals resulted in a vowel hiatus in Vedic. However, this was lost in later sanskrit and the vowels are merged for the sake of meter. Sometimes even the vedic chantings will merge these vowels.
- Hence, it is possible for *yah₂as to give sanskrit -yās. It would be Proto-Indo-European *yah₂as -- > Proto-Indo-Iranian *yaHas -- > Sanskrit yā'as which later became yās.
- by the way, an ending in -s turns to -ḥ in spoken sanskrit.
- However, at the English Wiktionary, the template for Indo-Iranian declension shows that the genitive suffix is -yáHs. This would mean the Indo-European is *-yáh₂s .
- After digging around a bit i found two verses with the genetive of the long ī (devī). There are definitely more because rigveda is a big text.
- @Tom 144: Thanks for moving the page! -- माधवपंडित (discusión) 02:26 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- Book 10, hymn 129, verse 2 says:
- न मृत्युरासीदमृतं न तर्हि न रात्र्याः अह्नः आसीत्प्रकेतः। आनीदवातं स्वधया तदेकं तस्माद्धान्यन्न परः किं चनास ॥
- (na mṛtyurāsīdamṛtaṃ na tarhi na rātryāḥ ahnaḥ āsītpraketaḥ. ānīdavātaṃ svadhayā tadekaṃ tasmāddhānyanna paraḥ kiṃ canāsa )
Here the noun is रात्री (rātrī), "night". The sentence means "there was no death and no immortality (then); there was no divider of night and day"
- Book 6, Hymn 49, verse 6 says:
- पर्जन्यवाता वृषभा पृथिव्याः पुरीषाणि जिन्वतमप्यानि । सत्यश्रुतः कवयो यस्य गीर्भिर्जगत स्थातर्जगदा कृणुध्वम् ॥
- (parjanyavātā vṛṣabhā pṛthivyāḥ purīṣāṇi jinvatamapyāni . satyaśrutaḥ kavayo yasya gīrbhirjagata sthātarjagadā kṛṇudhvam .)
Here, the noun is पृथिवी (pṛthivī), which means "Earth" and "vṛṣabhā pṛthivyāḥ" means "bulls of the earth". Hope this helps!! -- माधवपंडित (discusión) 07:57 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @माधवपंडित:, Thank you so much!! I count 43 syllables in total, always missing a syllable on the verse of the devī inflected noun, so I guess these were examples of verses with the Tristubh meter, which should have had 44, and there for it must reflect *-yáh₂as. Tell me if you disagree or if you count differently. Greetings. --Tom 144 (discusión) 11:54 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @Tom 144: Incredible! You're right, I counted; both the verses contain 43 devanagari characters!! (each character is a syllable). So the original verses may have read rātryā'aḥ and pṛthivyā'aḥ originally. So *-yáh₂as should be right. The problem is, at English Wiktionary, there are no entries for PIE nouns ending in *-ih₂ (which is where sanskrit -ī comes from) so I had no idea. A declension template for Indo-Iranian gives the genitive suffix for -iH stem as *-yaHs. According to what we have just seen, it should be -yaHas, from IE *-yáh₂as . -- माधवपंडित (discusión) 08:13 2 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @माधवपंडित:, Thank you so much!! I count 43 syllables in total, always missing a syllable on the verse of the devī inflected noun, so I guess these were examples of verses with the Tristubh meter, which should have had 44, and there for it must reflect *-yáh₂as. Tell me if you disagree or if you count differently. Greetings. --Tom 144 (discusión) 11:54 1 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @माधवपंडित:, I was surprised too, I wasn't really expecting it to work. Plus my intuition pointed towards *-yáh₂s but I'm glad we checked. So if you're interested my reconstruction currently looks like this:
| Athematic feminine | ||||
| Singular | Dual | Plural | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nominativo | *-íh₂ | *-íh₂h̥₁ | *-íh₂as | |
| Vocativo | *-íh₂ | *-íh₂h̥₁ | *-íh₂as | |
| Acusativo | *-ī́m | *-íh₂h̥₁ | *-ī́ns | |
| Genitivo | *-yah₂ás | *-ih₂óws? | *-íh₂ōm, *-íh₂ohₓom | |
| Ablativo | *-yah₂ás | *-íh₂bʰōm? | *-íh₂bʰos, *-íh₂mos | |
| Dativo | *-yah₂áy | *-íh₂bʰōm? | *-íh₂bʰos, *-íh₂mos | |
| Locativo | *-yáh₂i | *-ih₂óws? | *-íh₂su | |
| Instrumental | *-ih₂áh₁ | *-íh₂bʰōm? | *-íh₂bʰis, *-íh₂mis | |
Although it might change because I almost always change my mind about reconstructions. Btw, the English Wiktionary does have *-ih₂ entries, but they're all adjectives (see amphikinetic adjectives and proterokinetic adjectives). They all have *-yáh₂s in the genitive. So I guess the best thing would be to make sure that the main contributors know, and leave it up to them @Rua:, @JohnC5:. Greetings and thanks again for your help. --Tom 144 (discusión) 14:31 2 dic 2017 (UTC)
- @Tom 144: No problem, always glad to be of assistance! Your declension table looks great. Greetings :) -- माधवपंडित (discusión) 03:21 3 dic 2017 (UTC)